Four Reasons Christians Should Decry Catholicism

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With Pope Francis visiting the United States, and all of the excitement that comes with it, I think it time that many Christians come to grips with the truth that is the Roman Catholic Church. Sometimes being honest is difficult. The truth is hard to say, because often it is unpleasant. I don’t mean to insult anyone personally, but I do think that we need to follow the Bible and Christ wholeheartedly, and that means sometimes taking up a position that is controversial and very “intolerant.” Let us not forget that Jesus said:

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.
– Matthew 10:34-36

So, Jesus has already warned us that while the truth will set us free, it will also make us enemies of those who hate the truth. And that’s why I have to say that one of those enemies is the Catholic Church as an institution, and Pope Francis in particular. We don’t make enemies by going and picking fights, but as Christians, we simply become enemies with people, because we believe the Bible, and when a Christian tells people the Bible says they’re wrong, they don’t usually attack the Bible, but the Christian.

The honest truth is that while individual Catholics may innocently follow Catholicism because that is how they were raised, the Catholic Church itself is an organization based on the false interpretation of Scripture, religious hierarchy, and political control through tradition. In God’s eyes, the Pope is nothing less than a heretic and a false teacher, as is every high-ranking bishop or cardinal that willingly continues the lies told by the Vatican.

But before you gasp too loudly and lock and load your comment guns or your “back” buttons, let me ask this: don’t we know it? Don’t Christians, who know and profess to believe God’s Word, know that the Catholic Church is a den of heresy and false doctrines? We know, after all, that the Catholic Church once controlled almost the entire Western World, and that its influence was not so much religious as political. Despite the fact that the Catholic Church no longer engages overtly in inquisitions, it has not changed its statement of faith. Do I need to list the heretical doctrines of the Catholic Church? Do we not know them? Why do we as Believers in the Truth humor the Catholic Church? I’m not saying that your Catholic neighbors are horrible people and that you should shun them, or that there aren’t people in the Catholic Church who are helping those around them, or even that God Himself has not used the Catholic Church throughout history in His own way (let us not forget that God used both Nebuchadnezzar and Adolph Hitler for His purposes also).

I am speaking of the Catholic Church itself, not of the people caught up within the system. People can be deceived, and will be deceived, sometimes in great numbers. But those who have begun the work, and who maintain and improve upon it–these people are false teachers, liars, and thieves, whose only goal is to increase their power and influence.

Even some leaders within the Catholic Church are well-meaning, and I am not speaking of these either. Well-meaning people are everywhere, and there are even some real Christians stuck fast within the Catholic system, fearing to leave because they don’t want to be exiled as it were from their families.

How can I talk so strongly about the Catholic Church? How do I know they aren’t just another denomination with a few quirks that we can overlook? The fact is, the Catholic Church both adds and subtracts from the indisputable fundamentals of the church Jesus established. Here are four reasons to decry Catholicism and warn our Brothers and Sisters in Christ about this false Christianity. (I suppose I was bound to do one of these “list articles” sooner or later, and I’m sure my stock has fallen as a result)

1. Catholicism puts itself between God and Christians:

The Catholic Church realized hundreds of years ago that the direct link between God and Man through Jesus Christ was a threat to their base of power. If men can pray to God and obtain forgiveness of sins and eternal life freely from a direct, personal relationship with Christ, then they don’t need an official hierarchy to govern them and dispense these “commodities.” So, the Catholic Church took upon itself to place its own priests in the middle of the relationship, telling its followers that they could not come to Christ directly, but needed to pray to and follow Mary, the Mother of God, who was more compassionate and would plead our case to Jesus. Sins, rather than being confessed to God himself or Jesus, needed to be confessed before a representative of the Church, and these priests would forgive our sins and issue “penance,” essentially religious “homework” in order to put us in right standing with God. This is heresy.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
– 1 Timothy 2:5

This is a concept that the Christian church calls “the Priesthood of the Believer.” Meaning that we are all our own priests, and that we can ourselves come before God and ask His forgiveness, and obtain it, for it is freely given. In the Christian Church, Pastors are leaders and teachers, but they do not stand between their congregation and God, but with them, and a Pastor cannot forgive his own sins, much less the sins of his congregation.

2. The Catholic Church practices idolatry:

The Virgin Mary was a very special woman, chosen by God to be the vehicle by which His Son would enter this world. However, Mary herself was no more than a simple Hebrew woman. She was not chosen by God because she was special or had any mystical or cosmic power. The only real qualification that Mary had to have for God to use for that honored purpose was that she had to be in the line of David. (I believe) Mary was a Christian and had to believe on Christ the same way as every other human being. And when Mary died, she was immediately in God’s presence, worshiping and serving her savior. Mary does not intercede on our behalf to a dubious Christ, who may or may not forgive us.

But in the Catholic Churches and in Catholic homes there are numerous statues of the Virgin Mary. The title given her by the Catholics–“Mary Mother of God”–is nothing short of blasphemy and would have horrified Mary herself. God has no mother, for He created all things. May was the mother of Jesus’ human body, but she was not His mother and she did not have any hand in Christ’s creation. The Bible clearly teaches that God placed Christ inside her. Thus only the physical matter of which Christ’s body was made came from her. His person, His being… already existed, and had always existed. What she made for Him was no more than the flesh and blood that would contain Him, and even that was ultimately created by God Himself, for He created Mary also. The Catholic Church commands its followers to recite prayers to Mary, kneeling before her statues. This is simply idolatry, though instead of an image of Baal or Moloch, Catholicism set up a Christian individual as the idol.

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
– Romans 1:21-23

God hates idolatry, in the same way that a wife or husband cannot live with a rival to the one they love. God will not have us bowing before statues of men or women or anything.

3. The Catholic Church teaches error about Salvation:

Catholicism teaches that Christians can and do lose their place in heaven, and that Salvation is not a free gift but must be obtained through good works and (tellingly) favor with the Catholic Church. The Roman Church at one point even practiced the buying and selling of “indulgences,” which were oral or written confirmations that God had forgiven a Catholic either wholly or partially from a sin or group of sins. These indulgences could be purchased for money for oneself or for someone else, and there was at one time even the practice of buying people out of purgatory, where families supposedly paid for the rest of the sins their loved one hadn’t confessed before death. If a family member was “stuck” in purgatory, the family could buy them a ticket into heaven, essentially. While the practice of selling indulgences is no longer prevalent in the Catholic Church, the concepts of purgatory and of doing good deeds (or “charity” to the Church itself) remains to this day.

The Bible clearly teaches that while without works, faith is “dead” (James 2), works without faith are completely ineffectual.

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
– Galatians 2:16

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.
– Ephesians 2:8-9

It’s clear that while our faith should produce good works, as James says, God will not be satisfied with works alone, nor can they atone for our sin. Only Christ’s work on the cross can atone for sin, and that is why Catholicism is in error on the issue of Salvation, an error that serves to enrich and enlarge the organization that is the Catholic Church, and does nothing but weaken the Church of Jesus Christ.

4. The Biblical basis for the Catholic Church is a deliberate misinterpretation of God’s Word:

The authority of the Catholic Church and of the Pope in particular comes from the Petrine Theory, which is a corrupted interpretation of Matthew 16:18:

He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
– Matthew 16:15-19

The idea propounded by Catholicism is that Jesus was telling Peter that on this rock (i.e. Peter) Christ would build His church, thereby somehow giving Peter power to become the Pope. This is a deliberate error, for Christ was not referring to Peter (petros) in the verse, but to something before that (petra). Christ is the Rock of Ages, and the head of the church. Christ is referred to as the cornerstone.

Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
– Ephesians 2:19-22

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
– 1 Corinthians 3:11

Christ built the church not upon one special man, or upon his descendants, but upon Himself–upon the profession of men that Christ is God indeed, and the only way to be redeemed from sin. The Catholic Church elevates a man above other men, and gives him power that no man can have, but Christ alone. God does not need a single man to dictate new traditions to His people, ignoring the Bible which He has given to the Church, the true church. We should not obey men, but God Himself, for we are responsible for our own relationship with Christ. There is but one head of the church, and that is Jesus Himself.

Whatever Christ meant by giving Peter the “keys” was addressed specifically to Peter himself, and the Catholic tradition that this blessing was passed on to Peter’s descendants is nothing less than that–a tradition. We should not base our faith upon the traditions of men but on the Word of God.

Whatever other heresies the Catholic Church promotes, these four alone should be worth our speaking out against it. In the end, no matter how nice we may want to be to our Catholic neighbors, and no matter how much good the Catholic Church may be doing from a humanitarian perspective, the fact remains that it is teaching error. Nor is this a matter of the day on which to have services, or which songs to sing, or what to wear to church. This is a matter of salvation, and the souls of human beings. Ultimately, the Catholic Church has sent and is sending people to Hell. It is telling them that they have to follow its traditions and that the Church must mediate for them, and in doing so it is keeping people from the truth: that by faith we are saved through grace, through Christ’s death on the cross, by our belief in the power of His sacrifice alone to cover our sins with His blood. Nothing we can do can help us reach Heaven. Christ, not the Catholic Church, has redeemed our souls from Hell. The Catholic Church, regardless of the good intentions of some, is a self-serving, power-driven organization that has shown itself to be ruthless in the expansion and protection of its base of power.

Brothers and Sisters, we should not coddle people who are in error. Catholics need the good news of Jesus Christ as much as anyone. Rather than being “close” to True Christianity, they are farther than any atheist, because they have been deceived by a false Christianity, one that digs deep not only into individuals, but into whole families. God help us love and reach our Catholic neighbors before their religion drags them unwitting into a Christless eternity.

9 responses to “Four Reasons Christians Should Decry Catholicism”

  1. Joe Butler Avatar
    Joe Butler

    Excellent. We cannot wait while millions of people worldwide are following a lie. Their souls are at stake and this post helps to show how we need to teach the real truth, no matter how hard it is.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. phadde2 Avatar
    phadde2

    “They are farther from any atheist.” Do you have any personal experience with Catholicism? Have you every been to a Mass? It appears you have a lot of suppositions of Catholicism without any evidence.

    None of this will convince you, as man cannot search for truth, man must let the truth find him. Notwithstanding, you should allow the comment to let any readers know that there’s evidence to the contrary of your argument.

    First off, in Catholicism, the veneration of Mary or any saint is not considered worship. Catholics do not believe that any of the exampled are divine. Logically, by definition, it’s just not worship. If a Catholic were to worship Mary it would be heresy. The Mother of God argument is long and flawed argument within the history of Christianity beginning with the Nestorians, proven heretics–whom your opinion supports. I would suggest reading Augustine’s arguments against that sect.

    Veneration of Saints has biblical support: “He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward; and he who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward. Matt 10:41

    How does the above fit with God’s jealousy ?

    In Genesis 49:2-27, Jacob pronounced a prophetic blessing on his sons, and concerning Judah he stated: “Judah, your brothers shall praise you; your hand shall be on the neck of your enemies; your father’s sons shall worship [shakhah] you

    “Let the presbyters [priests] who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching” (1 Tim. 5:17).

    If someone knells before a statue, it doesn’t mean they are worshiping an idol, one who knells before the bible can be said to be doing the same. One can claim the difference because one represents the Word of God, yet, the Word is represented by the physical book, it’s metaphysical and so is the nature of praying before a statue.

    Biblical support?” ‘Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live.’ So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live.” Num. 21. 8-9

    The above indicates ceremonial use of a statue, Catholics are merely imitating biblical methods!

    The idea of “no salvation outside the Church” has a clear biblical argument:

    The Church is the keeper of the Sacraments that Christ gave his disciples:

    He who believes and is baptized will be saved. (Mk 16:16)
    Unless you repent you will all likewise perish. (Lk 13:3)
    He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (Jn 6:54)

    In fact your position that attempts to refute the Peter theory, which it doesn’t. actually supports the above examples of keeper of the Sacraments.

    Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
    – Ephesians 2:19-22

    Furthermore, Faith “Alone” is a direct lie from the translation of Martin Luther. As a classicists, I know that alone is not anywhere in the original Greek. Although Luther still acknowledges himself to be apart of the Sacraments tradition of the apostolic line.

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    1. Arnan Avatar

      Firstly, phadde2, I do not moderate my posts based on their opinions, only based on their language, so of course I would allow your contrary opinion.

      I will try to address your points in order:

      1. Yes, I have been to a mass. My parents were both saved out of the Catholic Church, and the Catholic Church dominated both sides of my family until my parents were converted to faith in Christ alone, and discovered the heresies within the church.

      2. Veneration of Mary and the Saints is not worship. You very appropriately stated that it was not “considered” worship. Yet it is indeed worship, for it is not to God that you are appealing, or to Christ himself, but to another dead member of the church, who can no more help anyone than they can or could themselves. You can say that you don’t worship Mary, but your veneration is not the veneration is not respect. No one in the Bible was commanded to pray to Mary, or to Peter, or to Paul. Receiving a man in the name of a prophet is not bowing and praying to their image. And Jacob’s blessing was one of veneration and respect, not one of praise. If Jacob had meant that they would actually worship his son, he would have been in error.

      “And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.” – Luke 4:8

      Worship is defined as “the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.” The important word is “deity” in that definition. Worship cannot be to a man, but to a god or to The God. Now, when praying to Mary or a Saint, God is nowhere involved. It is the person/saint that is being revered, adored, and prayed to, for as the Catholic Church teaches, these people are the ones who will mediate on your behalf. You have not addressed the verse in Timothy that states there is only one mediator between God and mankind, because that verse alone threatens everything that the Catholic Church tradition stands upon. The Catholic Church is built upon layers and layers of representation, be it Popes, Cardinals, Bishops, Priests, and so forth down to the layman, who is helplessly miles and miles away from God himself. This is an impersonal God, one that is far beyond our reach, and one that we must depend upon the hierarchy of the Church to beg for forgiveness and salvation. But I do not serve such a God. My God is available directly. I do not need a priest, or a saint, or Mary in order to reach God with my prayers or to ask Him for salvation. This is the freedom that God offers through Jesus Christ. That is why when Christ died the veil of the temple was torn from top to bottom–because it is now possible for anyone to approach the Holy of Holies… this is the priesthood of the believer.

      Bowing before statues is indeed idolatry, and the instance of the bronze serpent is not an example of God condoning the worship of an object. The serpent was a symbol, a reminder, and God is very fond of reminders, because His children often forget to depend upon Him alone, and trust to other things and people. The bronze serpent was not worshiped. It was not prayed to or knelt to. It was merely looked at-it reminded them of God’s promises. A more fitting analogy from that time would have been the golden calf that Aaron made at the Israelite’s behest. After all, the people did not say that the calf was a different god. Aaron said that it *was* God, as in it was a representation of the true God. He was telling them that in worshiping it, they were worshiping God. And God was very clear about how wrong that thinking was:

      “And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
      And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the Lord. And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play. And the Lord said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:
      They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. And the Lord said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.”
      Exodus 32:4-10

      So to God they were worshiping not Him, but the object, even though they considered it to be the God of Moses (Aaron calls a feast to the “Lord,” capitalized, which means he was referring to Jehovah). And God was so jealous enough that the end of Chapter 32 states that “the Lord plagued the people, because they made the calf, which Aaron made.”

      3. No Salvation Outside the Church. The Sacraments are two: Baptism and the Lord’s Supper. It is true that the church (as in, the church of Jesus Christ, as opposed to the Catholic Church) is intended by God to administer these ordinances, but the ordinances observed by the Catholic Church are not the same as the ones practiced by true Christians. Baptism is, for one thing, unable to save people. It is the *believing* in Mark 16:16 that is what saves us, not the baptism. God commands Believers to be baptized, not lost people to be baptized to become believers. If this were not so, then Jesus Himself would have been a liar when He told the thief on the cross, “…Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.” – Luke 23:43

      The thief on the cross needed no baptism, no sacrament, no ordinance, no priest, no church. He didn’t need the Virgin Mary or the Saints. He needed only to pray to Christ Himself, directly, with no mediator, and Christ *immediately* replied that he was a Christian.

      You quote Luke 13:3, but repentance is something that is done in the heart. Nowhere in the verse or in the context of the verse does it speak of confession as the church practices. Repentance is merely the turning away from sin in one’s heart, and in one’s life, and requires no one but the individual and God Himself. How the Catholic Church can quote Luke 13:3 and somehow draw from it the elaborate process that they require of their followers is simply astounding.

      Furthermore, John 6:54 is the accepted text for the Catholic Doctrine of Transubstantiation, which you will tell me is the doctrine that in the ritual of Communion the bread and the wine become the *literal* body and blood of Christ, and that the laymen literally eat and drink Christ. This is a) simply untrue, as there is no magical process by which this is done, b) damning theologically. Christ cannot be offered more than once. If He is offered more than once, if we must literally eat His flesh and drink His blood on a regular basis, then He is not a sacrifice capable of satisfying God’s wrath against sin. And if Christ is not enough, then He is not God, and if He is not God, then our trust in Jesus is vain, be we Catholics or not. It is not through these observances that we are saved, but through the once-for-all sacrifice of Christ–the destruction of His flesh and the spilling of His blood *once* for all sinners, forever satisfying God’s justice against the sins of men, past, present, and future.

      “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” – Romans 8:1-4

      “But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
      Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
      For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
      Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did ONCE, when he offered up himself. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore. -Hebrews 7:24-28

      So Christ is our priest, and He offered Himself *once* for our sin, and we need not crucify Him continually, and devour His blood and His flesh or representations of them, for our atonement is accomplished and complete, and when God looks upon us, He does not see our sin which we have done, but rather He sees the one who mediates for us, who is the spotless Lamb of God.

      4. Ephesians 2:19-22 does not prove that the Petrine Theory is incorrect, it proves that it *is* correct. You did not adequately elaborate on how this is true, so I will not address it much. The passage states that Jesus is himself the Chief cornerstone, while the rest of the Believers are all equal parts of the building. This does not seem to indicate support of the Petrine Theory.

      5. Faith alone is a lie from a translation of Martin Luther, who also believed in some traditions of the church. Martin Luther is not what I am discussing here. I do not know about any translation issue involving Martin Luther, but I need not debate the Greek with you, for there is overwhelming evidence of the importance of faith as the only thing we need to reach Christ, including the thief on the cross, who had nothing but faith, and the times when Christ saw an individuals faith and immediately responded that their sins had been forgiven (e.g. Luke 5:20, Luke 7:50, Luke 18:42). But these are just selections. There is a mountain of evidence, including:

      “Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.” – Romans 3:27

      “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.” – Romans 5:1-2

      “…Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;” Romans 9:32b

      “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.” – Galatians 3:26

      “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9

      …and there are more examples. But the Bible is vividly clear: salvation is through faith in Jesus alone, faith in His sacrifice, offering Himself ONCE for all who would have eternal life.

      Finally, I do not follow the teachings of Martin Luther, but what is written in the Bible itself. Luther deserves credit for being among the first to see the heresies that the Catholic Church was teaching, but he was by no means 100% correct, and being raised in the Church, of course had difficulty separating himself from everything he had devoted his life to. Yet in spite of that, I believe I will see Luther in Heaven someday, because he understood that it was faith in Christ that saved him from sin, nothing more, nothing less. I hope to see you there also.

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      1. phadde2 Avatar
        phadde2

        By the rules of logic, I digress that your assertion is victim to circulus in probando. If a Catholic were to walk into a Church, let’s say with a Bishop to fast track the results, and said Hail Holy Mary the divine mother of the earth. They would get a lecture, if persisted, they would be excommunicated.

        Let’s examine some of the Hail Mary and see if God is present:

        Hail Mary Full of Grace the Lord is with you. Bless are your among women, (Lk. 1:28)
        and blessed if the fruit of thy womb. (Luke 1:42)

        Let’s stop there to examine the Greek (as the language absolutely matters): When Luke uses the word “Kecharitomene,” meaning “Full of Grace,” the tense in Greek is Past, Present, and Future. There is no equivalent tense when translating into English.

        By that Biblical evidence, it indicates that absolutely Mary could and is the Mother of God. It also indicates by scripture that she was saved from the fate of Adam and Eve for the purpose to fulfill God’s word through the prophets.

        At the beginning of that pray, it’s completely biblical, it indicates the preparing of the NEW ark of the covenant. God is completely present within the veneration of Mary.

        Do Catholics really pray TO saints? Do saints pray for the full communion of the church?

        I agree that the only mediator is Christ (1 Tim. 2:5) however, asking a person to pray for you in no way a violation of that mediation. We should pray to directly to Jesus; however, asking for prayers of others doesn’t hurt. For instance, when other Christians ask for others prayers, why do so? If they should directly appeal to Christ?

        In Fact, Paul in the early in the Chapter asks for prayers:

        First of all, then, I ask that supplications, prayers, petitions, and thanksgivings be offered for everyone, 2 for kings and for all in authority, that we may lead a quiet and tranquil life in all devotion and dignity. 3 This is good and pleasing to God our savior, 4 who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth.

        Can we pray or have contact to the Dead?

        Christ shows by example, that in Deuteronomy 18:10–11, what God commands is the rejection of necromancing, as Christ makes contact with Elijah and Moses (Matt 17:3)

        Do the saints pray for others? Yes. One can find it in scripture.

        Revelations 5:8

        8 When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones.

        Thanks for allowing posts of others to written. We’re not going to agree on scripture– as apparent with your rejection to prayers and what are sacraments–with the rejection of John’s discourse on the Bread of Life.

        However, when creating another censure against Christians, as Catholics are, I ask that you consider these points from Paul and the Gospel of Mark:

        1 Corinthians 1: 10-17:

        10 I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose. 11 For it has been reported to me about you, my brothers, by Chloe’s people, that there are rivalries among you. 12 I mean that each of you is saying, “I belong to[b] Paul,” or “I belong to Apollos,” or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.” 13 [c]Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I give thanks [to God] that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so that no one can say you were baptized in my name. 16 (I baptized the household of Stephanas also; beyond that I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.) 17 [d]For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with the wisdom of human eloquence,[e] so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its meaning.

        Remember that Catholics are baptized only in the name of Christ.

        Mk 9:38-41

        38 John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone driving out demons in your name, and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow us.” 39 Jesus replied, “Do not prevent him. There is no one who performs a mighty deed in my name who can at the same time speak ill of me. 40 For whoever is not against us is for us. 41 Anyone who gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ, amen, I say to you, will surely not lose his reward.

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      2. Arnan Avatar

        Your use of Scripture is rather dizzying, but I grant that you have done a lot of studying. As the Bible says, much study does weary the mind, which is not to say that it isn’t good.

        But I do not want to digress into peripheral points that go on indefinitely, and so I will stick to the points of my article. We can argue the Greek and we can pull unrelated passages and cite them all day long. The main issue I really want to address directly from your comment is that the majority of your comment focuses on Mary worship, which I realize is a sensitive area for Catholics. The fact is that praying to Mary is indeed worship, and whether or not the Catholic Church punishes members who overtly *say* they are worshiping Mary or not, the act of prayer to anyone other than Christ or God is heresy. That is entirely the point I was making. Your comment sets up a straw man argument. My original argument is that praying to Mary, regardless of what you call it, amounts to worship and idolatry according to the Bible. That is all that I said. In your comment, however, you *interpret* what I am saying to be that asking for payer from another individual at all is worship and heresy. This is not my position, but you did an excellent job of breaking down *that* position, which you yourself set up. I do not believe asking other people for prayer is worship. Mary is not just another person being asked for payer within the Catholic system. She is revered as the “Mother of God,” a point which you vigorously defend, despite the point that it is blatant heresy, as it puts Mary on equal terms with God. After all, a mother is a progenitor, an originator, and since a stream cannot rise greater than its source, Mary is at the very least equal with Christ. This deifies Mary, and praying to her only reinforces that point. I do not deify you if I ask you to pray for me, nor do I bow before you and say a prayer to you in order to obtain your prayers. The first commandment is as you must know:

        “Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.” – Exodus 20:3-6

        Furthermore, no one in the Bible, New Testament or Old Testament, ever prayed to anyone other than God, except in the case of those people who prayed to idols.

        Lastly, I have no interest in stirring up strife or even not getting along with other Believers. Perhaps you are a Christian. I don’t know because only you can know that. All I know is what the Holy Spirit have given me, and that is the Bible itself, God’s written Word. Christianity is simple, beautiful, and yet deep and fulfilling. We don’t need elaborate rituals or mind-spinning theology to be saved. Even a child can understand that “by grace are ye saved through faith.” None of the rituals of the Catholic Church are recorded in the Bible. These are traditions that have been thrust upon people by the Church, not you. I have nothing against Catholics who dutifully follow their religion, but the religion itself is wrong, and full of false teaching. My interest is not to stir strife, but to speak the truth, because if you believe that your works to and for and through the Catholic church will save you from your sins you are deceived, and I fear for you. I don’t want people to go on believing in the lies of the Catholic Church, and perhaps that sounds harsh, but the Bible says in Jude that we should make a distinction, and that while on some we have compassion, for others we must save with fear, for what they are involved in may be very dangerous. The fact that Catholicism looks like Christianity makes it all the more dangerous. People want to believe that they can make it to Heaven by their own strength, because we have pride. The Catholic Church feeds off that desire, placing more and more steps between men and Heaven, and enriching itself and strengthening its political and cultural power. I pray that those who have trusted in God through faith will care enough about their Catholic neighbors, friends, and family members that they will share with them the truth: the Church of Christ is people, not organizations, rituals, and governments, and that they can come directly to God, and repent of their sins, trusting in nothing but the spent blood of Jesus as the perfect sacrifice for sin. And once they do, they can know that their soul is Heaven-bound, no matter what they do here on this earth. There is nothing between a man and salvation, nothing that we need do, no one that we need see. We need only repent, and believe.

        “For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” – Romans 8:38-39

        “The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” – Romans 10:8-13

        I thank God that those verses mention no sacraments, no priests, no Popes, no repeated prayers, and no demands for money. Thank God that a man in a prison cell in a far-flung country can read those words alone, and can the same hour be saved from sin and bound for Heaven. That is the revelation I pray for Catholics.

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      3. phadde2 Avatar
        phadde2

        Again, understand Christ’s message in the Gospel of Mark, with the understanding that Catholics only worship the God in the form of the Trinity.

        Catholic doctrine just doesn’t support the worship of Mary and declaring her the Mother of God, furthermore does not raise her station to that of Christ– and is not an indication of worship. The Nestorians made that argument and ultimately it’s a failed assertion.

        The idea stems from the early Western Church and the Greek word Theotokos, which means Bearer of God/Mother of God vs. Nestorian Christotokos/Mother of Christ. The actually argument stems on the notion of the Trinity and NOT Mary. If Christ is be viewed the Nicene way– Mary would absolutely be the Mother of God. The Council of Ephesus would further prove this point.

        ** A side note** I don’t know how familiar you are with the Classical languages, but I stress the importance of at least having a basic understanding of the grammar. It’s important to understand to understand how a Greek mind would attempt to articulate a sentence to form an idea in their native tongue as compared to English/German. Greek, as well as Latin languages are verb oriented languages.

        ** Back to the point** The worship of Mary being heresy within the Catholic Church is not strawman, not when it’s the literal truth and not merely words. Catholics are simply not praying to Mary.

        A group of Catholics, who have taken Marian veneration to the point of worship, were excommunicated for worshipping Mary.

        Little Rock, AR, Sep 27, 2007 In its 165 years of existence, the Diocese of Little Rock had never experienced its members being excommunicated, that is, until recently. Six sisters in Hot Springs, Arkansas were automatically excommunicated due to their participation in the Community of the Lady of All Nations, or more commonly called, the Army of Mary.

        http://www.arkansas-catholic.org/news/article/1006

        The worship of Mary of is undoubtedly proven to be heresy within the Catholic Church and my argument is based not on a generalized assertion but by the action of the church.

        “None of the rituals of the Catholic Church are recorded in the Bible.” They are absolutely recorded, I quoted them in the original post. Every part of the mass can be dissected from the Biblical commands or Biblical inspiration– from the Word.

        Curious, you do point out Orthodoxy as well in YOUR concern. However, There are other Protestant Christian faiths that are still similar​ to Catholic teachings in accordance to the Mass, for instance, Missouri Synod Lutherans (Although they’d never admit it.) practice the ritual mass in much the same way as the Catholic Church, are they damned to hell as well?

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  3. phadde2 Avatar
    phadde2

    also use the word “kneels” instead of “knells” in the above typos.

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